Defeating defeaters. A post about Sign of Jonah

Over at the Sign of Jonah site, there is a post by Drew that was done in early 2007. In this post, Drew said the following

“So with that out of the way, it allows us to go back again to the issues. We raise them in our posts and if you disagree, then do so on a theological basis. And when I say, “Give me a biblical argument,” I’m not saying, “Quote Matt. 7:3 out of context to me as a ‘proof-text’ that I shouldn’t be doing this.” Nothing pisses me off more because you’re using the Holy Word of God to excuse false teachers! How is that the Christian thing to do? I’m asking for a response to the substance, not the method. I am fully aware that I come across with all the tact of Rush Limbaugh at a Demerol convention. But whether you like it or not, we’ve called into question the orthodoxy of certain teachers. If we’re wrong, there’s got to be a biblical argument that would explain it. In my experience, people are not willing to find that. They would much rather flame-throw which is too bad because you’re missing the beautiful truth of Christianity in the process of defending false teachers or chasing after some more “genuine” or “intimate” way to God. Cain tried to find his own way to God too and it didn’t work out so well. Hmm…”

 

I mentioned on January 3, 2008 on SOJ that the word “P….s me off ” was hardly a Christian thing to say. I immediately was rebuked by drew. So following his own advice from the post, I used this verse from 1 Peter; 1 Peter 3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

Using a Biblical argument, as drew asked for people to do, I showed him the error of why he of all people should be careful of such language. I posted that comment late yesterday on SOJ. This morning it had been deleted. What’s wrong Drew?

You see the problem with most people, myself included, is when someone else shows us the error of our ways, we get offended and become defensive our-self. This is exactly the problem Drew was trying to get at with his post. Yet while pointing fingers at other ministries and people, SOJ, Drew in particular gets very defensive. That is an unteachable spirit and lives strong in a “spirit of offense”.

It wasn’t as much the word “pi…d off” that was used, it was the defense of it that was done by bill and mbaker. Bill even tried to use scripture to defend use of such word.

That is what I am talking about here. The hypocritical attitude that is often displayed at SOJ.

None of us are perfect. There was only one, Jesus Christ, who was and is the Perfect One. When we make a mistake in our words or actions, and a brother or sister points it out to us, we either receive it as a word of correction or we don’t. We either choose to repent and turn away from that thing or we don’t. If we are to lead by our examples, then let Christ Jesus be the example we lead by!

 

Why did I write this post? I was told by mbaker to do so. Here it is from her; Comment by mbaker on January 4, 2008 1:10 pm

“Jake,

You have a blog – write a post on this if you are so concerned about it. ”

My response to those there at SOJ for this coming year of 2008! Let it be a year of New Beginnings. Try to bring about unity in The Body instead of always pointing fingers at what is wrong with The Body. Sure we all have views and opinions, but do they reflect who we say we are in Christ Jesus?

That’s enough said for now. I managed to express my views on the matter without using “pi…d off ” or any other expletive. And boy, I sure feel better!!

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37 Comments

Filed under apologetics, Apostles, Bible, cessasionist, Charismatic, Christianity, church, evangelical, faith, God, Holy Spirit, Jesus, prophets, religion, theology, Uncategorized

37 responses to “Defeating defeaters. A post about Sign of Jonah

  1. C.L. Mareydt

    … isn’t that why we ALL write? too feel better about ourselves. to vent. to give out of our own treasures, the good, the bad, & yes sometimes the ugly. but at least we are ‘thinking’ about the truth. exploring the truth. & finding our for ourselves, the truth. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, & tomorrow.

  2. lbolm

    Amen,
    and thanks for your comment

    Be Blessed in Christ
    Jake

  3. Jake,

    You are seriously twisted.

    You continue to state that I tried to use scripture to support profanity when I already told you that I was not taking a position just tossing out some nuggets. If the truth be told, I was stirriing the pot in reaction to your pettyness. Your post is slander.

    Anyhow, I’d like to challenge you with your own challenge:

    “let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile”

    And also Proverbs 10:18 is worth considering.

    “He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.”

    Selah.

  4. And yes, I shouldn’t have been stirring the pot. I’m sorry.

  5. mbaker

    Jake,

    You used the word “poop” in the ttile and the in the body of your post.: “How Much “poop” Do You Want in Your Brownies? ”

    How Is that any different from using the word you objected to? While I have told you I personally don’t agree with the public use of such language, I think you have blown this whole thing way out of proportion.

    And since you’ve made us all so famous on your blog, do you want our autographs?

  6. lbolm

    Bill,
    If you will allow me to show you why I thought you were coming to the defense, here is the first words from your post;
    Comment by Bill on January 4, 2008 8:18 am
    Oh, come on, would have it been ok for you if he said “ticked off?”

    With those opening remarks and with your defensive attitude of things with me in the past, put yourself in my shoes and see how you would have taken it. If I misunderstood you, then I apologize right here ! Given the nature of your past remarks toward me however, I could only feel that you were coming back at me. Again , I apologize if I misunderstood.

    As far as my remarks about drew using the “p…ed off “, I stand by my post. We are called to walk a higher standard then those of the world. We only destroy the words of our testimony and who we say we are in Christ Jesus, when we let such words come across in a manner that is not fit for our Holy Father. Show me in scripture where you can find God’s approval of such words and His approval of anger toward our fellow brethren. We are encouraged by Jesus to even love our enemies. We don’t have to love the sin, but if we are who we say we are, thenwe are to love one another. Even if we don’t agree with their words or methods.

    mbaker,
    The word “poop” is being used to tell a story and not in anger with another brother. God always judges us by the heart. That is the difference.
    I thank you for your defense of drew and keith and for the work they do. While I may not agree with all the things they post, I respect the work they are trying to do. And no, I don’t want your autograph, as you don’t seem to even want to respond to my email to you. Therefore I would assume that you don’t want to build any relations other than to take pot shots at me on the various sites we go to.

    Please don’t get me wrong, I am not “all that”. I live a Romans 12: 1&2 livestyle and daily I have to let God the Father show me where I fail Him. I don’t do this because of some commandment to do so, but because of my love for Him.

    Thanks again and God Bless you both,
    Love in Christ Jesus,
    Jake

  7. >Oh, come on, would have it been ok for you if he said “ticked off?”

    Just trying to see where you were coming from, i.e.- was it the word OR the attitude?

    I don’t ever feel compelled to defend Drew, he’s a big boy.

    poke me with a fork, I’m done.

  8. mbaker

    Jake,

    You jumped me on Paul’s site to the point he had to correct you. While talking about how we should all get along, you seem to think it’s okay to constantly take your little personal jabs at others all in the name of the Lord! Sorry that’s not my idea of either having Godly discussions on the issues, or ” building any relations”. Give me a reason to want to do that doesn’t include slandering me when we disagree on issues.

  9. Sam

    Many other words have multiple meanings this word does not always mean Urinate If you have that in your mind instead of the context of how this word was used and the meaning of the word then YOU have a problem.

    1) From on-line Merrian-Webster Dictionary

    piss off
    6 entries found.

    4) piss off

    Main Entry: piss off
    Function: verb
    Date: circa 1946
    transitive verb
    sometimes vulgar : anger irritate
    intransitive verb
    British sometimes vulgar : to leave immediately : scram —usually used as a command

    2) from Free onlineDictionary..

    4. piss off, Slang.
    a. to anger.
    b. to go away; leave (often used imperatively).

  10. lbolm

    Sam,
    Just wondering who your comment was directed to.
    Thanks for coming by.

    Jake

  11. lbolm

    mbaker,
    As far as the reference to me ” jumping on you” at Paul’s site, I will remind you that Paul and I were having a debate between the two of us. You have been around long enough in this world to know it is not polite to jump in on other people’s conversation. It doesn’t matter if it is in a public place or not. I apologized to you, even though I didn’t feel it necessary, and I have moved on from that.
    Your problems with me go back to when I first started posting at SOJ and had a different opinion from those there about Prophecy and Healing.
    And just to remind you, it was you who told me that I should “go to my own site” to post my complaint about drew’s word in his post.
    My suggestion is that you learn how to turn the other cheek and move on.
    My face has been slapped on SOJ by you and others there more than once!

    Love in Christ Jesus
    Jake

  12. mbaker

    Jake,

    The difference is i have always stuck to the issues. You incurred everyone’s displeasure at SOJ and had to be called down there too, when you began to throw personal stones and have verbal temper tantrums when you were disagreed with. You’ve brought it on yourself.

    And Jake, i moved on a long time ago, so you seem to be the one with the problem. Attack me as much you want, but you will NOT intimidate me into not joining in a conversation on a public forum. when I have something valid to bring to the conversation if i remember correctly you yourself were guilty of rudely interrupting conversations several times on the SOJ, and on Paul’s blog. Physican, heal thyself!

  13. lbolm

    mbaker,
    I was “called down”, as you say, because I was offering a different view than what was being thrown around, If you encourage other people to come by and comment, then you are bound to have different views.
    I am just as adament about my beliefs as you are. Maybe we are both strongly opinionated and clash with those opinions.
    As far as me “rudely interrupting” any conversation, I challenge you to present your evidence of that !

    On SOJ, I have been called a “false teacher”, a “lier” and accused of things that were not true. I have made an attempt to reach out to you personaly, to try and build some kind of relationship in order to bring unity into our conversations. If anyone has been “attacked” it has been me.

  14. lbolm

    mbaker,
    I refer you to my post and read the last part of it.
    It is a call for unity. If you are who you claim to be, then that is what you should want as well.

  15. mbaker

    Then you need to be addressing the folks that called you those names, not me. I have never called you a name.

    Your interruptions are well documented over at:

    http:// signofjonah.wordpress.com/

    i believe it is Drew you are still angry at. But as i said, i don’t intimidate easily. As for your “apology”, you admitted it really wasn’t one, which i already knew, since you remained in attack mode.

    You sent me an e-mail thanking me for pointing out that Ian’s website had some language you would object to on it, something you did right here. Yet you continue to make accusations. Like i said I don’t call that sort of thing conducive for relationship building, but whatever.

    Nothing you have said or will say will change my mind until you start acting with a little more love yourself.

  16. lbolm

    If you really knew me, you would have no problem liking me.
    Be Blessed mbaker and this finishes this discussion with me on this subject.

    In Christ
    Jake

  17. thegreycoats

    hmmmmmm. i am sorry that you have been hurt by all this. but i gotta ask. is the word pissed really the big deal or is it the attitude behind it. for example if drew had said ticked would it have made a difference ? or was it the strong language apart from the profanity that really smarted ? i think if he had said ticked it would have been the same. but i dont know.

  18. lbolm

    Jarrod,
    It is a combination of the attitude and the word. If you will read ALL my post and the replies on this subject, I think I have made myself pretty clear.
    As far as the hurt goes, I have turned the other cheek several times and will continue to do so. This post was not because I got my feelings hurt, and if you read the entire thing, you should be able to see that.

    Thanks for coming by and you are welcome here anytime.

    Love in Christ Jesus
    Jake

  19. thegreycoats

    i did read the entire thing and my question was the result of reading the whole not just bits and pieces.

  20. BereanOnTheWall

    Turining the other cheek is writing a blog like this???

    Wow– maybe not the cheek on your face.

  21. lbolm

    jarrod,
    Let me ask you something.
    You apparently have no problem using “pi…d off” in part of a person’s vocabulary, based on your post here and at SOJ. With that being said, do you approve of such language like that around your little girl, whom you seem to be so proud of ?
    Based on your testimony that I read on your blog, one could assume that you have been hurt by other people in church leadership.
    If we toloerate things like bad language from others then why would you expect anything different from someone else. Is it just because they walk in some kind of authority, ie pastor,etc? That same criteria has to fit ALL of us who are called to the ministry. That is all I am doing about drew’s post.
    We should hold ourself to a higher standard then to use such words. They destroy the very fabric of who we say we are.
    No wonder the world looks at the Church and says ” What a bunch of hypocrits. They go around with their Holier than thou attitudes , but they still act like the rest of the world”.
    Anger is no excuse ! Did Jesus get angry and overturn the tables in the Temple? YES, BUT it sure doesn’t say he went around talking about how much it “pi…d him off”.

  22. IWanthetruth

    Ok folks after reading everything, laughing over some and even inputing myself on this topic…

    It’s obvious that the word Pi–d bothers some folks and it doesn’t others. I think that this is now become a vain conversation and is taking our focus off of more important issues. I am guilty also of input about it and do not find the word offensive, but, I guess if we are to not put a “stumbling block” before a brother/sister then we need to each be responsible to that end.

    I have heard much worse come from others (Christians) and sadly from the pulpit in churches that have gone the way of new theological, evangelical thinking (Emergent and others).

    Moving forward…….. ——–> Next topic please…..

  23. thegreycoats

    jake i was not hurt by my old pastor saying he gets pissed when folks twist the word of God. i was hurt by Him doing so. and as for my little one. she is my most valuable earthly treasure. and sadly she will probably hear much worse come out of the mouths of her parents from time to time, and it may be profanity free. words hurt wether proper or slang. its the heart that matters. what i mean is although i dont wanna cuss in front of her i will probably… no i will definatly say things that are bound to hurt her from time to time. i am a minister. i do hold myself to a higher standered than i would a younger Christian. but in truth the word in question is small potatoes compared to the nice words people use to destroy eachother with.

  24. lbolm

    jarrod,
    we have much more in common then you believe

  25. rooivalk

    Murphy’s Laws of Combat: Friendly Fire isn’t.

    It’s been done, but Drew proved that he actually is fallible ;). Yet Sign of Jonah is one site I regularly access to see if there is some new postings.

    Remember, no man has yet managed to tame the tongue; all sin at some point in their words.

    The World is watching for God’s people to finish their infighting, so they can down the last man standing. Forgive and forget: if it was the sin it was made out to be, God shall surely put a stop to Drew’s words until he recants.

    God Bless.

  26. judesplace

    Jake, I seriously think you ought to erase this whole section of the blog. It is a complete waste of space, It will benefit no one, it has hurt at least one Christian that I know and the content of the the original blog is more than useless. There are benefits to blogging but sometimes we get it wrong and here I suspect is such a case. Please do the whole Christian community a favor and just delete this whole sad excuse for theological verbage.

    Sincerely Paul.

  27. lbolm

    rooivalk,
    Amen. The World is looking at God’s people. That is why we have to hold each other accountable for our actions and words. That is the purpose behind this blog post. As far as the forgive and forget part. I AM NOT MAD AT DREW ! I am just holding him to the same scrutiny in his ministry as I expect to be held to in the one I have been given. Remember, it is I who have been asking for sometimes that SOJ post be more conducive to promoting unity in the body.

    Paul G,
    Brother are you serious? How many people do you think , wish that SOJ and Judesplace would go back and recant all their post and delete the things that are posted on those sites?
    It seems that you want to hold everyone accountable to your standards, but yet not be held accountable for your own actions. That just doesn’t work!

  28. lbolm

    Paul G,
    I just read your latest post ” Whistle Blowers” . As usual it is well written and backed by scripture.
    The Irony in it is after you would write such a post and then come here and ask me to delete my post which is doing exactly what you are saying we should be doing, according to your “Whistle Blower” post.
    WOW !

    I you call me “twisted” !

  29. lbolm

    I you call me “twisted” !

    And you call me “twisted” !

  30. judesplace

    Dont recall that I did Jake??

  31. lbolm

    Paul G.
    I am going to be who I say I am here and apologize to you sir.
    I went back and you are right, it wasn’t you who said I was twisted, it was bill.
    So, again, I am sorry for saying that you said that.

  32. rooivalk

    Message received. Rooivalk out.

  33. Sorry to bring this up again, but if we look at the KJV we can see many instances of piss, or derivatives of the word in the old testament.

    So pull out your KJV and read on. They are, as follows:

    2 Kings 18:27, Isaiah 36:12, 1Samuel 25:22, 25:34, 1 Kings 14:10, 1Kings 16:11, 1Kings 21:21, 2 Kings 9:8.

    My point in all of this is that we are more of a slave to past and present cultures than we realize. Most americans will agree that a Christian should not drink, swear, smoke whatever. This ideal can be traced back to our Puritanical roots. Do I advocate any of these? No. I say this to show that it is not always as cut and dry as we make it.

    I would like to discuss this in more detail, bu t I must get back to work.

    Blessings

  34. Ok, please accept my apology ( a sincere one BTW) for that last comment. I read the whole thread on SOJ after my last post. When I wrote it I thought that I had something to add, but noticed that Bill pretty much covered the whole thing. To be honest, I really don’t care one way or the other about the word piss. In my view it is nothing more than a cultural thread common to my generation. Kind of like the word crap. I have a pretty funny story where a british friend of mine got into a bit of trouble over another word that is quite offensive here. But I digress.

    After reading the SOJ thread I will say this; it always amazes me to see how easy we get sucked into frivolous arguments over the inconsequential while the real issues go unattended. It must be easier for us to argue over the minor things than it is to take care of the major ones. I really think it is a tool of the enemy.

    With that said, I ask that you forgive me for trying to be controversially argumentative. Not my intention.

    Blessings

  35. lbolm

    Chuck,
    Thanks for your comments.
    I understand that some would see this as a “little thing”, and that I was making too much out of it.
    They miss the entire reason of the post, which is to call into accountability, those who lead or teach the people of God.

    Yes the varied forms of “piss” can be found in the Bible, but never in context of describing ones emotions, but only in the way of describing the physical action of one to relieve themself of bodily fluids!

    There, I said it and I hope that puts this one to an end.

    Love in Christ Jesus
    Jake

  36. lbolm

    No Chuck, I don’t find you argumentative and you are welcome to post here!

  37. Jake,
    Gotcha and thanks.

    Blessings

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